Becoming a Plastic Warrior with Kristal Ambrose and Asia
Mimi 0:00
Today's episode is a bit of a surreal one for Jordan and I. Since we began Imperfect Eco-Hero in March 2021, this is the final interview of our first year of the podcast. One of our amazing guests today, Kristal Ambrose, happened to be the first eco-hero we were in contact with about a year ago today. This was before we had any episodes planned or recorded, before we had decided on our vision for the podcast, and we had a very small handful of followers on her bare bones Instagram page. We knew that we wanted to showcase and celebrate people around the world doing amazing things for the environment, so we began our, now regular, Eco-Hero Spotlight series on Instagram. One of the first people we highlighted in the series, thanks to a suggestion from Jordan's mom, was Kristal Ambrose, and her incredible work with her nonprofit organization, The Bahamas Plastic Movement. In particular, we were so impressed with Kristal’s work and getting the government in the Bahamas to ban all single use plastics. A ban that went into effect in 2020. When Kristal later wrote to us, thanking us for highlighting her work, Jordan and I were so excited that someone as great as her noticed our little podcast. It was even more special because Kristal told us how impressed she was by our project and how much she supported the idea of dismantling society's obsession with perfectionism, especially within the world of activism. Here we are, a year later and Kristal, along with one of her students, Asia, graciously agreed to sit down with us and chat about their work.
[intro music]
Jordan 1:39
Hey, this is Jordan!
Mimi 1:40
And this is Mimi.
Jordan 1:41
And welcome to the Imperfect Eco-Hero podcast.
Mimi 1:44
The series that connects community, normalizes imperfections and empowers heroes.
[end of intro music]
Mimi 1:53
Kristal Ambrose, also known as Kristal Ocean, founded the Bahamas Plastic Movement, a nonprofit that aims to tackle the serious problem of plastic pollution in the Bahamas, in 2013. Kristal have been inspired and frankly horrified when one year prior she had sailed the pacific ocean to study the Western Garbage Patch and saw firsthand what the human reliance on plastic was doing to the oceans. Since starting the Bahamas Plastic Movement, Kristal has been hard at work with embarking on academic research spreading awareness through educational programming leading citizen science creating a summer camp for students and advocating for policy change. Kristal has been recognized for her amazing efforts through a number of impressive awards. We are so excited for you to hear today's episode. Both Kristal and her student Asia were such incredible people to chat with and left both Jordan and I feeling inspired and hopeful for tomorrow. And what's more, our conversation with Kristal and Asia is especially significant and relevant, given the recent global achievement made. At the end of February, I attended the United Nations Environmental Assembly as a Canadian youth delegate. During this assembly, road leaders, environment ministers and other representatives, from one hundred and seventy three countries, agreed to develop a legally binding treaty on plastics to end plastic pollution. Having such a historic moment take place highlights how especially important Kristal and Asia's amazing work is. We're jumping right into a conversation with Asia talking about why she wanted to join Kristal in the Bahamas Plastic Movement.
Kristal 03:30
She uh…was leading a protest against the school, for better learning conditions! So I, like, ran her down, I was like, “Oh my god, what you are doing is so amazing! I would love for you to join our Ocean Ambassadors Club, we talk about plastic in the environment”.
At the time the Bahamas had just banned single use plastic and Asia was like “that doesn't make any sense! Why did the government ban plastic? This is silly!”. I was like “okay, I…I like that…I like that perspective, I encourage you to join even more!” and once you've learned about the issue, like, her whole attitude kind of changed but she still kept that…that fiery core, and that passion for activism, and so many other things. So I'm really happy that you're able to have us, so thank you!
Jordan 04:17
Yeah, thank…I didn't…I didn't know anything about that, Asia, but that sounds impressive! What were you originally protesting for? What was the schools not…not doing?
Asia 04:26
It was a lot actually, but the main one was we didn't have enough teachers. [rooster crowing in the background] Like, our classes didn't have, like, a English teacher for, like, two years, I think…two years without an English teacher, the senior school. And the bathrooms was, like, in poor condition, they was broken. And it was just really too small, it’s like, 100-something students in the class, I mean in the school, and they have only five toilets and one sink. That was crazy…
Mimi 04:57
Wow…
Asia 04:58
And…I don’t kn—…And a lot of the classrooms, they were old, and they were starting to break down and even got to the point where the wall…it would rock. Like because of what it…because wood—the wood was getting old, and stuff.
Mimi 04:57
Wow.
Asia 04:58
And the worst part was, a lot of…when I speak to most of the elderly, like, the parents of the community, they remember going to the school and they said, it's the same. And that's what really pissed me off even more, because they allow it to get that way.
Jordan 5:30
That's…One, sounds like awful conditions. But it's even worse that multiple schools and other people were feeling the same thing. But like, what made you decide to protest?
Asia 5:41
Well, I felt like maybe if we just put the school on the spot and make it be seen, then they would actually look at the problem, like…And then a lot of children go on the ground, then they will like go ahead and take consideration of our problems.
Jordan 6:00
My mum al—my mum always…has a saying “people do what you inspect, not what you expect”. And that sounds exactly like what the school did. The moment you drew attention, they now had to do it you're inspecting. So that's am—that's amazing. Did the school end up doing anything after your protest?
Asia 6:19
Yes, my…I think, I think the very next day or two, the Ministry of Education came down to take a look at the school. And then, after like, they were—they probably wasn't working fast enough. The PTA meeting started this Parents on a Mission group where they would raise funds to try help repair the school. And, I can tell they’re actually doing a great job because they started construction—construction, and they started bringing in new stuff ever since then. So everything is coming together piece by piece.
Jordan 6:48
That’s amazing.
Mimi 6:50
Yeah, I'm so blown away, right now! That's so cool that you did all of that. And that…yeah!
Jordan 6:55
And then it resulted in positive change.
Mimi 6:56
Yeah!
Jordan 6:58
Well, you're incredible, so…You're on the right podcast. [laughs]
Mimi 7:01
Yeah. I also love that, like, you are, like, self-described pissed off, because I love it when youth are pissed off. You know, often, we think of being pissed off as…as a negative thing, but it's actually a very powerful thing.
Asia 7:14
Yes, well, that's really how I felt in the moment. So I’d j— [laughs]
Mimi 7:17
Yeah!
Kristal 7:19
So proud! [laughs]
Jordan 7:21
W—Is that kind of what you had…you had seen, and that's why you were like, I need Asia…?
Kristal 7:25
Absolutely. And how I saw it, I was on WhatsApp, and someone had posted it on their WhatsApp status. And the school where I was working at the time, it was right at the dock and Asia and the whole crew students, they were at the public dock, where all the boats come to bring the tourists and people transit to and from the island. And I ran to the dock right away, but they had already left. And then when I was walking back to school, I saw them huddled around, behind this place called The Shack—it’s, like, this food place—and I went [enthusiastically] “Girls, that was amazing!!! I love what you're doing, you’re activists!!!!” and…then I started talking to them. And it was just amazing, ‘cause that's everything that we do with Bahamas Plastic Movement, right? It's like the young people using their voices to affect change. So to see that happening, in real time, for a problem that was so tangible for them, that was not environmentally related. But that was focused on education, and you know, their own health and well being and their learning environment, I just thought that was so powerful.
Mimi 8:23
I love that. We would love to know a little bit about the type of work that you're doing at the nonprofit, and how you spread awareness, and…what you perceive to be the solutions to the plastic pollution problem?
Kristal 8:36
Yeah, so my name is Kristal Ambrose, also known as Kristal Ocean, and I'm the founder and director of the Bahamas Plastic Movement. Born and raised in the Bahamas, in Nassau, Bahamas, to be exact. Uh, but for the past decade, I've spent most of my years working on the island of Eleuthera and also living abroad studying. So my work is always one foot in the Bahamas, one foot out. But my foot is always on the pulse of environmental education, activism, marine science and conservation. When I started Bahamas Plastic Movement, I started it and it's a backpack organization, is what I call it, because it goes wherever I go. We have no facility, we have no staff, we have no steady streams of funding, but what we have is passion, creativity, energy, and just this fire for fun, activism and environmental conservation. And Bahamas Plastic Movement, it's an environmental nonprofit organization, geared towards raising awareness and finding solutions to plastic pollution. And we do this by engaging citizens, locals, through engaging them in education, activism, citizen science and policy change, all around plastic pollution. And even though we focus a lot on plastic pollution, you know, our work is truly rooted in the hopefulness that comes from engaging young people in education and activism around plastic pollution. And it's that spark that we use to connect people to the issue so that they can then do things in their daily lives, or to address plastic pollution…or w—address the reduction of plastic pollution.
Jordan 10:13
What initially inspired you to go with this kind of framework for the non—the nonprofit? Because I haven't seen too many that focus, like, very specifically, not only on engaging youth, but like, educating them, so they…they then can go out into their communities and, like, also promote that education. Like, what inspired that kind of model for you? Did you have that growing up, or is that…or you did you not have that, and that's why you pushed for the Bahamas Plastic Movement to be created in this...in this flow?
Kristal 10:47
Yeah, I didn't have that growing up. And where I was working at the time—I was working at a research station—where…in the Bahamas, you know, where I, at the time, felt like I was a minority in my own country. And I saw that the research that was being done there, the way it was being communicated, it wasn't reaching the local community, it wasn't reaching our students. It was scientists talking to scientists, scientists that look like each other, scientists that didn't necessarily look like me, or that were where I was from. And so for me, when I started the organization, it was very important for me to bridge that gap between community and science, you know? And that's when I started the citizen science project. That's how Bahamas Plastic Movement started. I would take students to the beach with me, and we would collect data on how plastic was moving over space and over time on beaches in the Bahamas. And every time I would be on the beach, I would always—[emphasize] jokingly—I would say “this is the Bahamas plastic movement, guys!!”. And I never thought anything of it. And uh…it wasn't until a few months later, when I was like “You know what, I'm just gonna start my own nonprofit”. And I didn't know what that meant at the time—I still don't know what it means to run a nonprofit organization—but this is all fueled by heart, you know, and passion and…and what I think works based on my own experience and my own knowledge. And yeah, so that's how the framework kind of came about.
Mimi 12:08
That is incredible. I think that is so cool, if that's how you arrived there. I know you've done some other really cool things in your life, as well. You've sailed across the Pacific Ocean, I think that was in 2012. And that was [Kristal confirms] along the…the Western Garbage Patch. And then you recently moved to Sweden to do your PhD, which is so cool! And you're...you're focusing on plastics there and m—marine debris, is that correct?
Kristal 12:32
10 years ago, this year! I would have sail across the Pacific Ocean from the Marshall Isl—
Mimi 12:36
Congratulations! That’s uh…
[someone said something in the background]
Kristal 12:40
I’ve sailed from uh…the—Oh Lord, where did I sail from?!—from the Marshall Islands to Japan. Right. So I lived on this cool—
Mimi 12:46
Oh wow!
Kristal 12:46
—with a bunch of strangers who I didn't know, but they became family in the end. And it took us being in the middle of the ocean, being surrounded by nothing but wildlife water and waste, right? No airplanes flying over us, no boats in the distance, no islands in the distance. It was just us and all this garbage. You know, when I was disgusted, because it was those humans who trashed the ocean, those humans who littered everywhere. It wasn't me! And we started to dissect all of that waste. And I saw the different things, the plastic toothbrushes, the bottle caps, the plastic forks…all things that I had in my possession while I was on this trip. And then I realized I was a huge part of the problem, you know? I was the biggest plastic offender that I knew, and easily so, I could be a part of the solution. And that's what really motivated me to come home and start the organization. But it wasn't until maybe a year or so after that trip that I got inspired to start Bahamas Plastic Movement. And when I started the organization, I also left the Bahamas to go and study to get my bachelor's degree. Right. So since I've started the organization, it's always literally been one foot in the Bahamas and one foot out, managing things during my school breaks, planning our camp programs in the middle of class, because that's when I find excitement, distract myself with the things that I'm passionate about, right? Philosophy, I'll learn about that later. It was in that moment, you know, I'm going off to school to get my bachelor's, and the work started to gain so much momentum that opportunity started to find me. I found myself speaking on this issue at different places around the world, or inspiring others. When I did my bachelor's, I lived in Erie, Pennsylvania, and then I ended up moving to Nova Scotia to do my masters. And then I…after my masters I went back home for a year. And that was the first time I was on the ground for a year doing this work. And that's when I met Asia and that's when we started the Ocean Ambassadors club. And then I left to go back to Sweden. Not back…but to move to Sweden. I had lived in Scandinavia, doing plastic research as well, before, in Norway. But I went back and now I'm there studying marine debris uh, solutions for the wider Caribbean region, so it's all really full circle, you know, this 10 year journey. And I'm right at the end of it, almost.
Jordan 15:10
That's inc-, that's incredible. Just like h—were you…kind of gone and the journey you kind of been, but it's…it's, it's interesting for me that you're in Sweden, studying plastic for the Caribbean, like, region. I don't know why that's throwing me that you have to go to Sweden to then study plastic in your area. Was that…like, it…was there's just no programs for it, like, in and around the Bahamas, that you went specifically to Sweden, in particular?
Kristal 15:38
Yeah. And everyone asked me why Sweden, you know, and honestly, I go where the money is. That's the way I got the scholarship, there was a program specific to this, where they got funding for the Caribbean region. And, you know, as I get into academia, it's really complex. You know, I want to be home, I want to be studying at our local university. But those structures aren't in place. We live on an island, weather is…we're surrounded by water, like even Asia wants to do marine science. And she's considering moving to Canada, to be in the cold. You know, so some things we don't have here. So it takes us going away and coming back. And that's the thing, sometimes we have to leave home to build our arsenal to come home and give back and act. You know, so maybe in the future, this is me giving back on a different scale, me teaching here at the university level to bring these programs to the region. But yeah, Sweden, so far a place to go and study something that's affecting my home. Yeah, it's kind of wild.
Mimi 16:38
In your…in your story about when you were sailing across the Pacific…Yeah, just the way you described, you know, being surrounded by all this water, you know, not a human in sight, except for the people that you're with. But then you see all of this impacts of…of humans through this garbage, like…I'm trying to even like, think about what that…what that would feel like and what that would look like, it’s…I, like, I'm just really sad hearing about that, like, you're just, like, in the middle of the ocean, in the middle of nowhere. And yet you see all of this trash and all of this waste. How did that, like…Can you…can you describe to me, like, that emotional process that you went through?
Kristal 17:18
Very much so. It's very profound in a sense. So I’m gonna tell a long story now. So the day that we came across the majority of the debris that we found, it was clustered in something called a netball. And in that ball, it's a huge conglomerate of plastic waste. So you have fishing debris, ropes, net gear, and it acts like a magnet, pulling all these other types of plastic to it. And it also acts like a floating ecosystem. So you have all these fish that live under it. So in 16,000 feet of water, we pull up on this netball, we moored up to our boat, and we're swimming under it, we bring it back, we dissect it, there's 20 different types of ropes. There's tons of organisms in there: crabs, shrimp, and all these fish and organisms that you wouldn't find necessarily in the pelagic zone, right, the open ocean, mostly like our reef fish were in there. And one reef fish in particular, was the Sergeant Major. Now, when I started my Marine Biology career when I was 17, that was the first fish that I learned to identify in the Atlantic Ocean, right, in the coral reefs of the Bahamas. So for me being in the middle of the Pacific sea, and my homeboy, you know, Abudefduf saxatilis, the scientific name of the genus species of the Sergeant Major in the middle of the Pacific, dead, it was actually dead in the net, like, man, what is this? You know, like, it really struck a chord for me, and it was…it…it hit that chord of home, like, this is a fish that I know, this is something that I can hold, something that I can identify. And I see in real time, how my actions have indirectly jeopardized the life of this fish that I claim to love, this ocean that I claim to love. So…so that's what it was like, it was very emotive, right? But I remember looking back at the video, and I'm talking about it with this big silly grin on my face, because that's another aspect of the work, right? It's so doggone depressing that you have to stay hopeful and joyful. [laughs] So it took seeing that to really help me realize that this...this was real.
Mimi 19:23
Just a small follow up question to that, although it's not that small. How do you find that hope? And how do you find that joy?
Kristal 19:28
In people like Asia, and through the children that I work with, and time and time again, I say it's the fine line between depression and inspiration doing this work. I am pretty burned out talking about plastic. But what gives me hope and what fills me up, is talking about the things that we do with you, the hope that we create the…you know, the motivation that we're able to create by being imperfect, plastic warriors. You know, we were real with it. We're not perfect. We're not living plastic free lives. We're trying our best. And…and we're connecting with nature. And we're getting this generation to connect with something that's so much bigger than them, something that's a core part of them. And, and, for me, that's where the joy comes from, you know. So my journey, even though you know, I've been ordained by the ocean to work on plastic stuff, the bigger picture is human connection and connecting people to the ocean and to their voices, and sparking inspiration. So that...that's what keeps me hopeful.
Jordan 20:26
I love that. Asia, how does that make you feel? Does that add pressure?
Asia 20:32
Hm, I don't think it adds pressure. But I think it's like, I'm grateful for it. Because like, not every kid has that opportunity to have people looking at them, like, as inspiration. So I'm glad to have that. I'm grateful for it. And I hope to inspire more people, you know, not only for Miss Kristal, but for everybody. And that one day, all the locals in the community could actually see this problem and try and be a part of the solution.
Kristal 21:02
Yeah, and I just want to comment on that. Thanks for that Asia, you know, and so often, I would look to young people when I would speak to them. And jokingly, I would say, "we created this problem, you have to fix it, thanks in advance". And it was Greta Thunberg, who said something very powerful. She's like, "How dare we, you know, put this problem on the shoulder of youth. It's a problem for them to solve that they didn't create". I was like, “Man, damn, she's right!”. You know, so for me, it's not looking to them to find the answers, but working with them and not saying, like, “Listen, I'm the adult. I'm from the old school, this is what you need to do”. But it's like, I message Asia all the time with all these ideas of I'm like "Asia, what do you think about this?" [laughs] You know, so it's like that it's a real partnership?
Mimi 21:45
Do you think that youth are given enough credit about how much they understand about the climate crisis and how much they're doing about the climate crisis? Do you think it's underplayed? Or do you think they're given the right amount of credit?
Kristal 21:58
I think, um, I think it's underplayed. Right? It's cute. Right? "Oh, that's cute, look at those children doing stuff!" You know, but they don't—, I don't think people really take it seriously. You know, but you have so many young people around the world, especially in indigenous communities that are on the frontlines, you know, just trying to break down these barriers to protect their futures. I mean, we look at Greta Thunberg, you know, because she's the one who…who's gotten the most recognition, you know, and some people have made a mockery of her…especially at…on a political level, you know, and it's just, it's not funny, you know? Young people are scared, eco-anxiety is a real thing. You know, but when young people do do things, it is celebrated. But I don't know how appreciated it is and how seriously it's taken. And even in my work, I tried to be sensitive of that too, that when our work comes across, and I'm very adamant about making sure that people know that young people are partners in this, that they're producing this series with me, we're having roundtable discussions on these things together, even though if I am leading the helm, you know? But I don't want them to just be seen as cute products, like we mean business, and it's sometimes hard to get that across.
Asia 23:14
And I agree with that statement, because I can prove that we don't really be taken seriously because of how long people take to respond to what we're saying to them. Like, it takes them a really long time, or it takes for children to actually get rude—well I'm not saying rude, but like, they have to get feisty in order for them to hear what they're actually saying. And speaking from experience, too, because like, about the protests, I've been complaining about the principal—I mean, to the principal, to the teachers, I think I wrote like three letters to the Ministry of Education too. And they did not respond. It took a protest where I had to make the school embarrassed in order for them to respond, and things like that shouldn't—it shouldn't take for that—for them to take us seriously.
Kristal 24:03
Right? And even adding into that, Asia, I remember that day, when I roll up on y'all, you know, when that lady was talking to you, and she was like, "there's a different way to go about this, you should have consulted us first!". And you know, honestly, like, "oh, whatever, Miss, okay? [laughs] This isn't about you". But it's like things like that…and in our culture, when children speak out, and when they ask questions, like, “oh, you rude, you don't back talk authority,” you know, “who do you think you are? You need to learn to behave!” And it's like, “No, we're not rude! We're asking questions, in this generation, now, the challenging people, and asking questions, because we were suppressed if we ask the question”, “you’re too smart on your mouth”, right? That's what we were told. So, I'm very glad to see the empowerment happening for the young people, but it needs to be taken seriously, by the older generation.
Jordan 24:55
Asia said, a lot of what gives her hope are your programs! Is that kind of, like, what you're teaching in them? Like, what are the Junior Plastic Warriors? What are these programs that you created? Like, what is the goal? And is Asia's response make you happy that that was kind of, like, her takeaway from...from them.
Kristal 25:15
Yeah. And just leading into the programs, you know, Asia’s response solidifies why I need to keep doing what I do. And that reminds me that it's not about me. Because quite often with our programs and the things that I do, and I'll elaborate more, I always think “it's not good enough, I need to raise the bar, I shouldn't do camp this year”. And I talk about camp. And when I remember asking our students one year, it's like, “what if we don't have camp this year?” And they looked at each other, and then they looked at me, and then they burst out laughing. And they’re like, “Miss Krystal, you serious? We need this. We look forward to this, what do you expect us to do?” And I realized it had nothing to do with me, you know, I'm just a catalyst to do this work. And it's for them, it's for their betterment. It's about planting those seeds. So our programs, our main program is our Plastic Pollution Education & Ocean Conservation Summer Camp. And all of our programs are tuition free, but plastic camp is our main program, where we take students on this holistic journey from the problem with plastic to solutions to this environmental crisis. And we placed them at the center of being solutions. So over the course of five to six days, they are out in the field connecting with nature, they're doing scientific research, they're out in the community, raising awareness, they're working on policy, and then they're coming back in a leadership capacity. And there's actually a science to this. It's called the Plastic Warrior Feedback Loop, where our programs are rooted in core values of stewardship, education, creativity, leadership, passion, right? And students come into the program through environmental connection, right? Because you protect what you love, that then goes into the citizen science, the community activism, education outreach policy, and the pair mentorship, right, where we've seen 70 to 80% of our students—of our staff, sorry, being formed on campus, you know? And the in-between the ages of 14 and 16, ‘cause once they leave the program, they come back as junior counselors. Asia was a counselor in 2020, and also a senior counselor in 2021. So it comes back that way. But like I mentioned, since I started the organization, it’s always been one foot in, one foot out. So every summer or every winter break that I'm home, and we run these programs, I build up all of this momentum, and then it's like, "Alright, see you next year". And that really bothered me, you know, because there's always this torn between the personal/professional development, and also developing the organization. So when I started Ocean Ambassadors, it was a bridge program to connect our summer camp program to the ongoing academic school year. So after school, we would meet with Ocean Ambassadors. And that's where we got a lot of work done in the community at Harbor Island. So that's…that's what that was, but it kind of…it’s on standstill and back into the summer rotations, and some back, and school and…yeah, we'll talk about balance some more, I'm sure. [laughs]
Jordan 28:16
[laughs] That was literally gonna be my next question. I was like, how do you...how DO you juggle all of that, and then also balance your own mental health with everything?
Mimi 28:28
And academia! On top of that! [laughs]—You’re doing all of these things!
Jordan 28:29
—Well, yeah, yeah, and you're schooling. [laughs]
Kristal 28:32
Look at my eyes,…[laughs] academia. Um, very grateful to be in this Ph.D. program, and I'm excited to see it through, you know. But sometimes it lacks that creativity, and that...that passion, you know, where we could just have fun and create and connect people, right. And that's the issue that I see with…with science and writing. It's talking to the same audience. It's so black and white. When I know working on the grounds, these things that we propose in the scientific papers are great, but there's some loopholes and things that we don't consider. Especially when we talk about people in low-income communities and people who don't have access to this information. It's very much an ivory tower, sort of approach…But I'm done with that tangent. How do I balance? [laughs] I do my best. You know, when I'm home full time, I'm like, “Man, I know, I need to go back to school, I need to continue building on this research”. When I'm back in school, I'm like, “Man, I need to be back home, I need to be working with the kids”, you know, so it's always hard mentally. But I do the best that I can, and I operate on my sparks of inspiration. And time. The time that I'm afforded to come home, I will be trying to do programs and projects. We have two events scheduled for my time here, since I'm home for the winter. But we had to cancel it because of COVID. But just have to be fluid and keep going, you know? So in terms of the mental aspect, I'm learning the art of letting go, you know? I do all—everything for the most part on my own. And it's pretty challenging because I put the self-inflicted pressure that “It has to be great! This organization, they have this whole social media team, they have all these things! I need to be better, I have to be more organized!”. But I'm really doing my best, and when I think like that, it really takes away from so much of everything that we've already accomplished, being such a small backpack, grassy grassroots organization, you know? So I tell myself something that I crafted with slow growth, high impact. And that's what our work is about. You know, doesn't have to be fast. Because when we grow fast, you also lose that authenticity. And I don't want to lose that. But even though we're growing slow, we still have such a high impact, for the things that we've been able to do over the last decade. So I always just try to come back to that and do the best that I can with whatever's on my plate. And the plate is heavy. So sometimes I just go and take a nap and just procrastinate. [laughs] That's the real truth.
Mimi 30:58
I think that's perfectly valid. I'm definitely up voting the nap. [laughs] Because I think we all need that. When Jordan and I first, like, were conceiving this idea of Imperfect Eco Hero, two of the things that we wanted to tackle was, one, you know, dealing with perfectionism, and like, accepting and welcoming your inner imperf—im…perfected…ness, again. [laughs] I make up words on this podcast all the time. And then the other thing is creating a community, ‘cause we realized, like, how important navigating the climate crisis with a community around you is, ‘cause it's just so lonely, and so disheartening and so dis—depressing when you're trying to navigate it on your own. So I would love to hear, ‘cause you've alluded to both of those things, but I would love to hear a little bit more about that…that journey of, like, dealing with your own perfection/imperfection. And how community has helped you navigate that.
Kristal 32:00
I think, for me, I'm not zero waste yet. I don't lead a completely plastic free life yet, and that's just the circumstance of where we live on an island, you know? And we say this in our series, Plastic Warriors Try…tries, it's not impossible, but it is hard, and it's challenging. But it goes back to doing our best, you know, making sure I have the bare minimum, my water bottle with me, refusing a straw when I can. But for me, now, I'm thinking, how do we take it further than that? And how do we get other people to connect? So for me, when I think about community, I kind of think back to the years before. Before our whole society, especially in the Bahamas, before we got so caught up with the convenience of single use plastics, and all these commodities, and capitalism, I think about my grandparents who used to upcycle you know, the peas tin, the tin, that cans of beans would come in, and they would use that for mugs. Or they would take burlap sacks and upcycle it into underwear, or take old tires and make shoes, or my grandmother would weave baskets out of straw, you know, which I feel is a dying art in the Bahamas. And she would go and take that to the field and pick up tomatoes and then take all of their bottles and use those to bottle the tomatoes, you know, and that's still something that happens in the Bahamas. So when I think about community, it's like reconnecting people to things that are already inherently a part of our culture. And how do we go back there? And how do we see that this is something that's accessible to people of color like us? Because when I first started, and I would take my reusable bag to the store, I would always get “oh, you've been around those white people for too long! oh you think you[‘re] in the States?” You know, it's…it's like that mindset, it's like “no, this is our narrative, don't let them gentrify what we've been doing for years!”
Jordan 33:56
You know what I…that was…that made me think, ‘cause you said that you have kind of one foot in the Bahamas, one foot out, like…What has…what has your experience been as a, like, a black woman in…in these spaces that are…especially ‘cause you're in spaces that are predominantly white being in Pennsylvania, being in Sweden? Like how is…how has that been?
Kristal 34:19
From the environmental side of things, you know, something that we don't think about… Whenever I do take my reusable bag to the store, especially when I was living in the States, in Pennsylvania especially, I would always make sure I have my receipt. Because the first thought is going to be you know, because I'm of color that I'm probably stealing and that's a realistic concern that a lot of people of color have. Even in the Bahamas. We did a survey, maybe like seven or eight years ago, and that was one of the responses, a guy said he wouldn't use a reusable bag because people would think that he was stealing, you know? So…so that is something that…that we think about, that I think about…But my experience living abroad and seeing our different waste management systems, especially in Scandinavia, it's been really interesting. When I lived in Norway and seeing how they would separate their waste into eight different categories, you know, to see the recovery that was in place, to see the systems where you take your plastic bottles, and you get the tax return on those bottles, or to see that you can go to the landfill or the dump. And you can actually go shopping in the thrift store where people throw everything away, you can see the compost piles that are steaming hard, that they sell back to people to start their community gardens or their backyard gardens. You know, so see that…that scale of circular economy, I was als—always very inspiring. You know what, it makes me wonder how can these things be applied or what lessons can be learned for the Bahamas and for the Caribbean region?
Jordan 35:50
Is that kind of how your Plastic Try series or the Plastic Warriors Try series kind of came about? Because I've seen…I've seen a couple episodes, and the idea was that like, one of the themes is like how…how can we be…how can we limit our waste? You know, in the Bahamas with what we have, like what is doable is, like, kind of how that series was hm…birthed?
Kristal 36:13
Hm, Plastic…Plastic Warriors Try series came about for me thinking about the same thing, right? The pressures of you know? We call ourselves Plastic Warriors and all these things. Yeah, we're maybe not using reusable straws, but we still have other aspects of plastic in our lives. I looked in my medicine cabinet, you know, I have issues with acne, and all my facial products are plastic. I was using a bamboo toothbrush, and I went to the dentist, he's like, “what kind of toothbrush do you use?”, I was like “bamboo!!” So proud. He's like “You need electronic toothbrush”, you know, so at the time, I could only get a plastic one, you know? So there was still all this plastic in my life. And I was like, how do we call ourselves the Plastic Warriors? We really about this life or not! You know? So that's where Plastic Warriors Try came about. It was to challenge ourselves, to see how we can reduce other aspects of plastic in our lives that we don't consider. So, hair was a big one, Asia was a part of that episode as well. In Afro-Caribbean cultures, you know, synthetic hair is a big part of summertime! Dude, we gotta get the braid, the plaits! You know? But that hair is made from plastic, it has so many chemicals in it, that's not good for us; the haircare products that we use, they come wrapped in plastic, you know, the beauty products that we use, the food that we eat, you know, so we just flipped it on its head. And it’s like, “You know what, we're going to make our own hair using banana fibers from the banana tree that grows in almost everyone's yard. We're gonna make our own hair conditioner out of aloe cactus and hibiscus that literally grows in everyone's yard. We're gonna go to the local baker man, and we're gonna take our bags and have him give us our bread, fresh out the oven, not wrapped in plastic. We're gonna go to the local farm, get our compost, we're gonna get local brands, and we're going to do the best that we can. And we're going to make our own products as well. And that's what we did. And we just had fun with it. You know, we also reminded people that this is all well and dandy, but this is hard, you know? Who has time to make this every day. So we do the best we have what we have, and we keep it moving. And we embrace the reality is that we can’t find zero waste products readily available in the Bahamas. But we never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. It's the only thing that ever did. Word to Margaret Mead, and that's what we said at the end of every video. So that's where Plastic Warriors Try came about.
Mimi 38:40
I love that. Yeah, the way you tackle the educational piece of your NGO of like, that inspiration, and not necessarily telling people what to do, but showing that you can do it, and trying to get that inspiration from there. But of course, when you're t—when you're trying to educate people and spread awareness, there are misconceptions that happen. So, I'm curious, what…what do you find is, like, the biggest cons—misconception when it comes to, like, the plastic…crisis, if we call it that. And, and yeah, how…how do you…like, how do people perceive this plastic issue? And yeah, what…what can you tell them about it, that…that they may not understand right away?
Kristal 39:22
A few things, you know, and just, I think the biggest misconception is the myth of recycling, right? “Oh, I can use this, we can recycle it!!”, you know, or “I can recycle this!!”. There's no large scale recycling in the Bahamas for plastic. Even if it is, that is still shipped off, there’s ethical issues around where's our plastic ends up, who's sorting it out? And it's usually in, you know, on the doorsteps of disenfranchised communities, in the Third World, or in the Global South— as they’re calling it now. So that's one misconception. I think when we think about colors, I mentioned it, right, the gentrification of what it means to be environmentally friendly, you know that “oh, that's what you've been around white people, that's what white people do”. One thing that's coming to mind for me right now is the topic of menstruation. And it took being in our program when we filmed Plastic Warriors Try, for me to make that switch to the menstrual cup. I always would use tampons, and I would use the small ones that were in the plastic wrap, but they didn't have an applicator, you know? And I thought I was doing my good deed, you know what I was real cringy, I was like “Man, a cup?! See that blood? I don't know!” But it was one day in camp, and one of the boys, like, we were demonstrating how the tampons actually work. And we had it in like this red juice, you know, and I actually was on my cycle - this may be too much information - and I use one of those tampons, and I removed it. And I s—for the first time ever saw all of the plastic, right? In the…in the product itself. And I was like, “Man! We just learned about all these chemicals, all these toxins, and I'm here talking about Plastic Warriors Try?!” And I tried the cup, you know, and it was really working with the students that really got me to make that switch. And seeing it, and learning from them, and having these big conversations about men, and society, and how they're trying to control our bodies, and chemicals!! So that night, I was like, "they're right!! I need to do better!!" So yeah, that's…that's…that's one misconception that I had to get over. But I think the myth of recycling is…is a big one, right? And that whole out of sight, out of mind thing, “I could use it, you know, someone's gonna take care of this for me”. It's all a lie, people. But there's recycling that does happen, but only a small percentage.
Mimi 41:47
I was recently watching a documentary on, like—this is very Canadian based, but—donating clothes, and how most people think when they donate their clothes, that you know, somebody else will use it. And they…they feel good about that. But I think it's, like, something like 5% of clothes that get donated actually get worn again by somebody else. Most of them just get, like, thrown out or shipped somewhere else. So it's like somebody else's problem. So as you were talking about recycling, it definitely reminded me of that, of like, yeah, it's a huge problem, this waste that—and we think we're doing good, but it's…it's not.
Kristal 42:21
Yeah...But...and the whole thing, you know, I'm just bringing it back to the whole concept of this podcast, you know, the imperfect eco-hero. That's what we all need to be because we have to face the fact that we're all complicit, you know? Myself included, you know? We're emitting climate—or emitting emissions by being on this video call, now I learned. Emails, you know, have something to do with climate, and, you know, even if I donate my clothes, it's still going to end up probably in the trash can, you know? What do I do? Live in the bush naked?!? Is it feasible? Maybe, but not in this reality, right? So we're all complicit. So how do we do the best with the knowledge that we have, and be imperfect together? You know, because all of these small steps are going to add up, if we're all doing it consistently, and universally. So that's…that's sort of al—always comes back down to me acknowledging the fact that I'm complicit in every single thing. When I use my phone. I don't know where they got the mines. Was it ethically sourced? Did little children get those things for me? I'm thinking out loud, I don't even know, right? But these are the things that keep me up at night. [laughs]
Mimi 43:28
It's like you're reading my mind.—
Jordan 43:30
Yeah.
Mimi 43:29
—Like, whenever I buy anything, or do anything, I'm always, like, going through this checklist. And it's, it's exhausting, you know, and I'm just one person. And yeah...
Jordan 43:40
And I'm curious, Asia, like, having actually participated in these programs, like, what have you learned from them? Do y—Like, have—Were you ever overwhelmed by anything that you were taught? Or did it kind of give you a brand new perspective on, like, how you consume in life?
Asia 43:57
I would say a little bit of both, because like, at the very beginning, when I first started getting involved into the programs, I was like, like you said, “You wash, use the heater and you still…like you're still committing the wrong. So that would, like, trigger me sometimes. And, like, at first, it—it was overwhelming for me, but then I don't know, over time, I just got over it. I was like, “I'm trying, I'm not perfect. It's not always gonna go the way you expect it to go, but as long as you're trying, it will make a difference”.
Jordan 44:31
Love that. Was there anything that you learned in particular that you now do in your day to day life, like anything…anything that you've tried, that you've now adopted into your thing very easily, that…that you've also inspired others maybe to do too?
Asia 44:45
I try to…like, when I go to the store, I try to carry reusable bags, but sometimes I do forget, so I'd have to end up…like, I end up using the plastic bags. But most times I do carry reusable bags and I have tons of reusable cups and bottles. So I use them, instead of buying bottles of water, or going somewhere and getting their plastic cup, instead, I just use my mugs and stuff. And I try to inspire— like my friends, my small group of friends, like, every time I walk past trash, I pick it up. Or if I see them use it, I'd be like, you can't use that. And like, sometimes they would tease me, but I know it's out of love. They'd be like “Plastic! Well you can’t leave that on the floor!” [laughs]. So yeah, but I mean, it has opened my eyes, a lot, to many things. And I've been trying to do stuff. And food that, like, um, because food do serve a big contribution in plastic pollution, because like, a lot of food that we do get from other countries, it comes in pack—plastic packaging. And like everything else that ends up in the dump, we end up burning it or in the ocean. So I am trying to start my own farm. Like, when I was small, I always had a thing for gardening and things. But ever since 2020 came with the plastic ban, and the COVID…well the pandemic came and like, there was no food coming in. I was like, why do we have to get food from other places when we could grow it ourselves? So that's when I really got into farming, and stuff, and agriculture.
Jordan 46:23
—What do you grow?
Kristal 46:23
—You wanna tell them what [inaudible]. Yes.
Asia 46:26
Yes, I did grow…I'm currently trying to grow sweet okra, a okra tree, tomatoes…[eye-rolling tone] again...and cucumbers. I did my like my okra tree did go to a big tree, and the fruits—vegetables or fruit? —but anyway, it started to bear. And then my dog went and ate the whole tree. [all laugh]
Jordan 46:51
Oh…Gotta love your pets!
Asia 46:54
[laughs] And I have a papaya tree now. It's a native fruit, and it's bearing fruit now, so I'm happy for that one. I can’t wait till they ripe and stuff, so you could actually go and eat it, and you could be like, “I grew this and I ate this”. But yeah. And planting als—gardening also gave me hope, because, like, you could always look at and be like, “I brought you up”. [Asia and Kristal laugh] And hopefully, because where I live, it isn't a lot of space, and a lot of challenges I deal with is, like, pests going on the plant, and damage in it, and soil. So I like…I like to go far and beyond to get soil to come back and put my seeds in it, just so it could bear properly. But other than that I'm still trying to work with it.
Mimi 47:42
Yeah, there’s…there’s been a lot of layers throughout this conversation that we've had today. So one of the things I'm curious about is, like, the topic of mental health and how that intersects with all of this and how…Like, what first of all, what your relationship to the topic of mental health is, and then secondly, like how do you…how do you navigate that and, and ensure that you're…you're checking in on yourself and checking in on others?
Asia 48:08
I do think mental health is…is important, but it's very foreshadowed in our country. Because, like, they don't take mental health seriously, unless it is a big, big problem. And it's almost like a taboo topic. Nobody talks about it. And like, if you do talk about it, they think you want attention, or they think it's like…it isn't as important as anything else. And I just feel like the Bahamas should take it more seriously. And look into it, instead of making it seem like it's nothing. And, um, I try, like, me, for myself, I try to stay positive. But like when I am sad, I am sad. No hiding it. Because I learned that if you try to hide the fact that you’re sad, or feeling a certain way, it'll make you feel worse. So you have to let it out. And I try to be that person, like, for my friends to talk to, so they don't feel that burden. And that's the most I can do, because we don't have much therapists. I mean, if they do, I don't know about it, honestly. But we don't have much of that over here.
Kristal 49:16
Yes, so true. It's uh…it's brushed off, especially when it's coming from young people. “You’re too young to know about stress, you don't have no bills!!!”, you know, “what are you stressed out about?!” It's like, life, people! We all experience it. For me, I think I've had some mental health challenges with this work. Like I mentioned earlier, facing burnout, and not feeling as passionate to talk about the problems of plastic all the time. And for me it's…it's exhausting, because, ever all we—I feel like we're just talking, and talking, and talking, and you know, the solutions aside from “refuse to use single use plastic”, it's so…Individuals are…we have to bear the burden, right? But the industry is still producing. They're not doing anything to turn off the tap, you know? So, I really get exhausted when people come up to me, and they want to talk to me about recycling, or talk to me about plastic, you know? And I'm very non confrontational, so I listen. But sometimes I want to post a disclaimer, like, “Please don't talk to me about plastic, I'm off, I just want to laugh and have fun, and have a good time, if we get into talking about the environment, all well and cool. But because I am in this space, I don't want to talk about it all the time”. Also, I've been learning how to set boundaries for work. And for personal time, I've been getting into new hobbies, I started pole fitness, which has been really hard [laughs] but so fun. You know, learning how to use my body strength, and also taking the lessons that I learned there, and applying it to the work that I do, you know? Lessons about confidence, and being afraid to let go, and being afraid to try and fall, you know? These are all things that I'm learning from the poll, believe it or not, I'm applying it to my life, you know, that I have to let go, I can’t solve this issue. And even in my PhD, you know, three years to do this program, I'm not going to change the world with this degree in three years. What I can do is create a foundation, where anyone can take this work on and build on it, you know, it's not my problem to solve. And I think I've come to terms with that, and I'm okay with it. You know, and I'm finding what my real passion is, in this, which is communication, and speaking, and inspiration, and storytelling. So how do I take this problem? And for my mental health, where I like to create, you know, do fun stuff, how do I take that on moving forward? Rather than staying in this dark shadow of the problem of plastic, which is very exhausting. That's why when this came up, it was perfect. Because it wasn't about being perfect, it was all being imperfect and being real, and that's the thing that keeps me grounded. [shouts] THE THING I KNOW IS I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING, I’M JUST OUT HERE WINGING IT!!!! You know? [laughs] So that…that gives me hope and inspiration. And the thing that also keeps me going and balanced—and I have to—like, Asia said something, you know, when these emotions come through, you have to acknowledge it. And you have to let it run through, you have to let those fears run through you. The sadness, the pain, the anxiety,... but you can't accept it all the time as your reality. It's all temporary, you know, and through nature—this is where I learned all the lessons, right?—the seasons of nature, the seasons of life, it's the same. And from this journey that I've been on this—the last 10 years, everything works out exactly as it should, every “no” leads you to the right “yes”. And we have to remain steadfast and in the face of adversity, and know that better is always coming, that you have to plant the seed, you know? Me, all of this stuff now, this is all the back end of the work, you know, it didn't happen overnight! So I have to remember that, as I move forward, and as the days get tough, especially with this PhD. Cause I'm ready like [shouts], I'm over this!” [laughs] But I have to stick it out, it's gonna get better.
Jordan 53:08
I'm like, grinning ear to ear, ‘cause that…I don't know, that, like, hits a…hits a chord within me. And I kind of love that a lot of—like, all these extra things that you've done, like the poll work, nature. Like, there's so many other things in life that have provided you, like, more inspiration, and you've actually been able to use some of these skills. Cause a lot of people think that if they're not doing environmentalism 100% of the time, they're not a good environmentalist, when a lot of times you need to be doing other things to become more well rounded and learn skills, for example, from poll or learn skills from doing anything else. Like, you know, I started doing breathwork, because I found getting grounded and really taking the time to, like, breathe deeply helped me get into a better headspace to do the work. Even though the time spent—it's just…sitting in my room on the ground, breathing. To me, that like….being unproductive can still be productive. And it doesn't have to always be necessarily in environmentalism, or thinking about environmentalism…or like to think—
Kristal 54:11
Yeah.
Jordan 54:11
—more …more that you can do. So yeah, no, I just…I love that. I hope our listeners also take that.
Kristal 54:17
[muffled] Yeah, I [inaudible] that [clearer] and I did breathwork too. I did the Wim Hof Method. And I just got into all these different things that really built my mental capacity! And the breath work was so transformative! Because it's just you, and the breath, and the power of your breath. I didn't realize I could hold my breath for that long. And you know, Wim Hof calls it “getting high on your own supply”. You know, and I felt my…it felt like my flesh was detaching from the bones of my body. And in that moment, there was clarity. You know, realized my…I'm the Alchemist of my life that I do have control over the things that I want. And what I want, how I want to shape this work, it doesn't have to be how anyone else says it should be, or what I think others think it should be, you know? So that kind of work were you mentioning, it really brings you back to reality and it…it recenters you. Recentered me at least.
Jordan 55:06
I just think people don't often think about the work they do, their activism, needing that component as well. Because if we're not in that right headspace, if we're not in it, and we're not enjoying the work we do, but also not taking breaks…cause what rest is…radical. Like…you…like, you do need that time too and I…I think that component…even when we try to get people engaged in wanting to do more, that burnout is what's so scary. And I think why a lot of people end up dropping off is because they haven't done the work to create these outlets for, you know, this grief, and trauma, and guilt, and everything else that comes with, you know, making…making real change. I don't know if you, Asia, have any things that you do that help when you're feeling low.
Asia 55:52
Um, when I feel low, I try to keep myself busy. I tried to…do something productive, find something to do. Something I like specifically, so I can take my mind off of it. Because when you do things you like, you get happy. So yeah, that's what I do. Or I just sleep.
Mimi 56:12
That’s valid. One question that we always like to…usually we end off with it, but we just always ask it regardless, is: Who inspires you and…like who have you taken inspiration from as you navigate climate crisis, as you navigate the issue of plastics, as you navigate just being human?
Asia 56:33
The polar bears in the Arctic. [laughs] Okay, I'm just kidding. But, like, yeah the ice is—
Mimi 56:38
I actually love that answer!! [laughs]
Asia 56:42
[laughs] Ice is melting and like, this…I just don't want them to sink one day. But anyway, moving forward, um, Bahamas Plastic Movement, of course, seeing the change that people try to make within the community. The small groups like Justin's All Stars; the little cleanup group; the council who's try every now and then to go in the community. And Teen Dreams Co Lab. Y'all ever heard of it?
Jordan 57:09
No.
Asia 57:10
Okay, um, I can try to explain this the be— I follow them on Instagram. Well, they do…they try to spread awareness about climate chang—change, the media, like they'll do virtual competitions, and stuff like that. Virtually. And make videos and stuff to try to get youth engaged, so that they can make a change. And honestly, I don't participate in it. I didn't watch—I think I participated once. And, but that was it, that was it. But I still watch them and I get inspired by them.
Jordan 57:45
But that's...that's...those are all good options. And it's cool for you, that you actually follow other youth groups, to kind of see what other youth like you are doing. Another good option for anyone listening is Youthtopia. It's like a collection of changemakers all over the world and you can get involved with them, speak on them. They have like a really cool, like, series. And yeah, like there's so many other…other great youth groups like Zero Hour….Tons! like I would totally recommend anyone listening, that is a youth…like looking at us old farts might not inspire you [laughs] but other young, fresh, hopeful people might be what…what does it. And there's a lot of…and a lot of them are so keen on, like you said, like, they set challenges, they do things, they really try to engage youth and give them ideas of, like, how to get inspired. So yeah, no, I love that Asia.
Kristal 58:40
Yeah, Youthtopia. Melati Wijsen and her sister Isabel, from Bye Bye Plastic Bags, huge source of inspiration for me! I love those girls, I've gotten an opportunity to meet them and it's just amazing, you know. What they've been able to do and the way they're able to activate young people globally. But where I find inspiration is in the average person, you know, who was putting their fears aside and chasing their dreams against all odds. Ah, that brings me a lot of inspiration. Obviously, our students know the time that I get to spend with them, the lessons I learn from them, the laughs we shared—share…really keeps me going. And nature. You know, I think about the planet, the sea t—turtle born on the beach, left alone, you know, to fend for themselves, having to navigate through the ocean, having to get to the sea first without being eaten by a bird. Once they're in the ocean, the fighting of plastic pollution and sharks and all these things, right? And they go on this crazy journey all around the world, to end up exactly where they need to be, right on the same beach where they were born, you know, to do what it is they do in nature, give birth, and reproduce. And you know, just going through that journey against all odds, and getting there, that keeps me inspired. So I think about the journey of the turtle quite often.
Mimi 01:00:01
Yeah thank you. Like, thank you for your time, for your energy, for everything that you do!
Kristal 01:00:07
And love from the Bahamas! I really enjoyed this as well. And thank you so much for the platform. You know, for your listeners, if they want to learn more about our work, bahamasplasticmovement.org. If you want to learn more about me, it’s kristalocean.com.
And this is a shameless plug: I have a children's book that's gonna be released internationally next Thursday, January 27th.
Jordan 01:00:30
Oh my god, no way!!
Kristal 01:00:32
Yeah, it's…it's been like eight years in the making. But it's a story, it's called Kai and Gaia Discover The Gyre, and it's everything we're talking about with young people, you know. It follows the story of Kai, a young bohemian girl, and Gaia, a sea turtle who get stuck out to sea, in the garbage patches. And it demonstrates the power of one single youth to effect positive change. So you can find that on the olympiabooks.com, it’s going to be on Amazon and a portion of the proceeds is gonna support our education programs at Bahamas Plastic Movement…yeah. And that book is dedicated to all the plastic warriors in the Bahamas and around the world, so hopefully it inspires.
Mimi 01:01:14
But still, you're honestly, like, the coolest [inaudible]—
Jordan 01:01:16
—Coolest!! Like, I was just gonna say, like—
Mimi 01:01:16
—Like I LOVE that,—
Jordan 01:01:20
—Oh my god, that’s amazing!
Mimi 01:01:21
—Like we talked about all of your achievements and then you're like [casually]“oh by the way, I did one more thing!”...[laughs] You are so cool!
Jordan 01:01:26
But then, and then you're like “I don't really feel like an eco-hero and I don't feel like I'm doing enough” and I'm like—
Mimi 01:01:32
—I knooow!—
Jordan 01:01:33
—wow! [Kristal laughs]
I can't wait to read the book that sounds ama— And so…I— this is good timing, when you mention the sea turtle, now there's going to be a book about this too! I'm excited, and we’ll share it on our page, so our…our listeners and our followers can go out, and buy, and support the amazing work you guys do.
[outro]
Mimi 01:02:00
Thanks for listening to this episode of Imperfect Eco-Hero. Stay connected with us through our instagram @Imperfect_ecohero or email us at imperfectecohero@gmail.com. If you want to learn more about our podcast or see resources related to this episode, visit our website imperfectecohero.com.
