Empowering Climate Action in Your Children
Mimi 0:00
Parenting is tough. Of course, there are countless beautiful moments throughout one's parenting journey, but there's no sugarcoating around the challenge of raising and nurturing a human. As someone that isn't a parent myself, one thing I've observed around the parenting community, is how quick people, both parents and non parents alike, can be the judge, comment on, or even look down upon a person's parenting. And in some ways, environmentalism can be similar in that people, and in no way do I mean all people, can be really judgmental towards the environmental journeys or choices of others. And that's a huge reason why Jordan and I started Imperfect Eco-Hero: to create a safe community of caring folks who genuinely want to do better for the planet where we can learn, connect and grow with others, without being shamed. But what happens when you're shamed for your parenting? Or for your choice of becoming a parent at all, in relation to environmentalism and the climate crisis? How can you talk to your child about climate change, without overwhelming them? How do you raise an imperfect eco-hero? These are all questions that today's guests Dawn, or better known as D2, will talk about in this episode.
[intro music]
Jordan 1:10
Hey, this is Jordan!
Mimi 1:12
And this is Mimi.
Jordan 1:14
And welcome to the Imperfect Eco-Hero podcast.
Mimi 1:18
The series that connects community, normalizes imperfections and empowers heroes.
[end of intro music]
Mimi 1:28
D2 currently works in change management communications for a major financial institution, where they have nurtured their strategic planning and graphic design skill sets. They also manage Start the Waves graphic design needs for all channels and communications. They are passionate about how positive change could impact the world and strongly believe in the work Start the Wave is doing to achieve that goal. They are constant advocate for kindness in all forms, and use that as a foundational pillar in raising their son Toby. When they aren't working or volunteering, you'll find D2 spending time with Toby, creating art in any form they feel inspiration from, and enjoying nature on one of the many hiking trails near home. Jordan and I met D2 through Start the Wave, when we first began planning for the launch of this podcast. In our first meeting with them, D2 gave us practical and strategic advice on the communication side of the project. However, as we got to know them better in the weeks and months that followed, we realized how relatable their journey of environmentalism was. When D2 mentioned the added layers of environmentalism when it comes to parenting, we knew we needed to share their story, because it's one in which we think a lot of folks can connect with, and learn from, whether you're a parent yourself or not.
Jordan 2:45
Hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we did recording it.
Mimi 2:49
We're very excited to have you on Imperfect Eco-Hero today. So thank you so much for joining us and for agreeing to share your journey with us and to talk about the way you navigate environmentalism and the climate crisis. I'm just going to jump into the first question, which is what was your journey getting started to Start the Wave? And how did you get into environmental activism?
D2 3:08
My journey for Start the Wave..um... It was kind of interesting, I think, you know, Dom has explained this multiple times, on multiple different panels. And when I was thinking about my own journey to getting to Start the Wave, when I got the questions for this episode, it really rang true, when I started thinking through things, but you know, Dom has mentioned multiple times, it just seems like at the right moments, when the right people needed to join, or we needed, you know, a certain individual with a certain skill set, just magically, that connection would somehow organically be made. They've talked a lot about when Porter reached out, like, it was basically “we need to become a nonprofit, but we have no idea how” and then boom, Porter emailed them. And that's kind of how, like, Dom just randomly emailed a friend of mine and I, they just asked, like, “I have a couple quotes, would you mind designing them so I can post them on the Start the Wave account?”. My friend and I were like, “sure!”. And so we made these couple quotes, and that was kind of it. And randomly, just one day, I was like, “I wonder if they need more help, like, I have a ton of free time. Like, I could just offer my help and, like, see what happens”. And so I just emailed them and just said “I have free time if you guys need any other help, like this is my, like, professional portfolio, like, outside of graphic design, I know project management, and I work in communications, you know, all this stuff, so whatever you guys need”. It was like “oh my gosh, like, we need someone for social, like, let's set up a call”. And you know, from there it was, yeah I, like, joined the team, and that was November 2019. And so it's just evolved from there. I basically done all the graphics, managed social, and that's evolved into helping with the website and now and stepping into start—, like, doing more project management for us as we grow and you know, things like that. And so my own eco-journey, really becoming a parent, I think, kind of set that trajectory on its way, so to say, cause I wanted to make sure that I was not just setting up a better world as he grew, but I also wanted to set up him to create a better world as he grew and evolved and... and everything. And so, I really started focusing on ways to raise him more eco-friendly, lessons to teach him as he grew up, and making sure that we were adopting those things within our household. So it wasn't like, I was telling him as he grew up, “oh, like, make sure, like, we shouldn't buy plastic, like, plastic pollutes the ocean, you know, blah, blah, blah”, and then we go grocery shopping, I buy a bunch of plastic, you know? So I was really like…it held me accountable to making the right choices, because he was always watching. And then you know, you evolve, and you grow, and you learn more, and then, like, your…your steps get more, and more, and more, and more as you, like, go across this journey, like…You can't do everything day one, like, that's, I think a big mistake people learn, is that you can't just be immediately 100% eco-friendly from day one, like, it's…it is a journey. And it's taken me years to even get, like, 20% where I am, you know, so… And then, Start the Wave was a huge, um, boost to that, the last few years, because Toby was a huge fan of Dom from Wynonna. And so, it was easy to have that source and that outlet for, like, his engagement to be, like, “oh!”, you know, like…you know, “there's a new video, let's watch it!”, and he was watching it because he was a fan, but then also, it was teaching him a lesson at the same time. And it, like, aligned with all the things I was trying to teach him as he was growing up, you know, the environmental impact, but also like the kindness impact and, like, treating people the same no matter who they are, you know, the animal rights, all that kind of stuff was…was stuff I was already teaching him. So, just been…it's been like this up and down path, but the last few years have definitely been a lot easier.
Jordan 6:51
I'm really curious, would you say then, cause you're saying your eco journey really started a lot when you started…[mocking tone]”when you started”[back to normal tone]...when you became a parent? Would you say that's been because you were thinking a lot about Toby's life in the future? Like, I'm really curious, like, what sparked that change? Cause I'm just curious what your relationship wi— with nature was like growing up, and then being a parent, how did that change it? And if it was thinking a lot about Toby's future, really, that was the driving force behind it.
D2 7:20
Yeah, I mean, growing up, my parents always taught me a love of nature and a respect of nature. Like, we were constantly traveling, like, I've seen a ton of national parks, like, you know, we didn't— like, when we took vacations, we didn't, like, fly and go to these crazy places, like, we would drive to the national parks and we would, like, see what was in our own backyard. And when we would be there, it would be those lessons of, like, you don't, you know, scare the animals, this is their home, like, we are coming to their homes, and you respect them in that sense, like, “Yes, they've set it up, you know, for us to come visit. But that doesn't mean that we belong here more than them”. And like, I remember being told not to rip the grass out of the ground, because, like, the grass needed to grow, and you know, all these types of, like, small lessons from when I was a kid. So I always grew up with respect for the planet, but the missing piece was the consumerism and those types of things, and the effect they were having. I was always brought up with that respect and that focus. And then becoming a parent myself was where I was like, “Okay, I've always had this mindset, and I've had this, but with, you know, all of this news coming out about global warming, and you know, climate change, and all this stuff, there's got to be more to this”. And then that's when I really started researching, like, what else can be done, and I learned all of this new stuff that we could be doing. And then it was really, “I want to raise Toby in the same way I was raised to respect—” and so same thing, like he's never chased a bird in his life, and like he's never ripped grass out, he doesn't pick flowers, he doesn't rub leaves off treat, you know, like he's brought up with that, like respect for the planet. And then, in addition to that, I've brought him up with the new aspects of it, like consumerism, and fast fashion and all these different impacts that we have by the way we buy things and we consume things, and how we, you know, live on this Earth in addition to just like, the nice respectful things.
Jordan 9:18
Wow, that's great that he not only has learned from what you're teaching him, but he can see the mistakes in other— other people and he recognizes it as well. Like, with Toby's friends, have you taught him, like, how to interact with them and, like, talk about it to them?
D2 9:38
There's been a couple times where he was a little bit more aggressive and we definitely had a conversation of, like, it didn't need to be an argument, like, if they have their opinions and you have your opinions, that's fine. Like, you just need to say, like, the reason that we do this is this, like, if you want to do it, then do it, you know? Because there was a— an instance at school with, like, a reusable bottle. Like, he is, like, super against plastic bottles, like, when he sees people buying them he’s like, “*sigh* Why don’t they just have a reusable bottle?” and I'm like, “I don't know, bubba, it's fine”, you know. And so, like, he had gotten a little heated at school trying to get, like, his classmates to bring reusable bottles, like he was. And he kind of used, like, the manipulative, like, “Well, me, and so and so and so and so and so and so, all bring reusable bottles. So like, why aren't you bringing any reusable bottle?” and I was like, “you don't need to be mean about it, you don't need to make them feel bad about it, because kids your age don't have control over that. Like, there's a lot of things that go into it. Like, their parents may not be able to afford them a bottle right now. Like, their parents, like, even if they went to their mom and dad and said, I really want a reusable bottle because I want to be more eco-friendly, their parents could say no, because their parents may not care. Like, so, like, kids your age don't have a lot of control over this right now. So you can do your best and, like, educate them and try to get them to do it. But like, you can't make it an argument or a fight.” But like a big thing with like, when I talked earlier about like, Start the Wave and like, the…a lot of the pillars that we have are the things that I've taught him, which is one of the biggest things I've taught him since you know, before he could talk probably, was to be kind to be compassionate and like treat people nicely. And so I think that comes in a lot, like, just naturally to him. And so like, like, he's not very confrontational anyway. But yeah, I think…I think he's done a good job so far.
Jordan 11:28
Sounds like it!
Mimi 11:29
Yeah. I love that. How do you feel, like, your relationship with nature has influenced your career? Like, I want to talk about how it's influenced your parenting a little bit more, but first, I just want to circle back to your career, and especially with Start the Wave and, like, why do you think art specifically around like climate change or biodiversity helps in the process of learning, as well as connecting people to the bigger picture.?
D2 11:52
Um, as far as my career, I mean, it hasn't impacted, like, as far as, like, my job-job, I say my job-job, and then I say Start the Wave because, like [laughs], I consider them both jobs. But like my day job, um, it's…I was working there before I had Toby. And I built an amazing career there. And so I haven't, like, changed my career, or you know, my focus like that. Because of this, but I can appreciate and I push for things at my company, and…to make us more eco-friendly, even just within, like, my internal team. And I'm part of our pride Employee Resource Group there. And we were talking in 20…18, I think it was?...about what we could be doing, to set us…to set ourselves apart in events, like, within our company. It's just easy to get, like pallets of plastic water bottles, and like cans of soda, and all this stuff for events, to give everyone refreshments and whatever. And I was like, “you know what could set us apart, is if we make a green pledge for our ERG. And we just say, from this point on, starting with the new year, and moving forward, we will no longer supply water bottles or drinks at any of our events, we will have the cafe, bring in infused waters and punches. And if you bring your own cup, you can have a beverage”. And everybody at the company has been given multiple reusable cups and water bottles over the years. So everyone has one. And so we're like if they have one, tell them to bring it. We're saving money out of our budget for our event, so we can get better swag giveaways, like, all that kind of stuff. We're being green by not, you know, providing these things. And it, like, almost all the ERGs adopted it after that, like, you know, and so it really set us up. And then within our own team, we would do expos and things, and I was always in charge of the purchasing, and it was just like we would get a box full of boxes, full of boxes, full of things wrapped in plastic, and it just drove me crazy. And so I pushed — the last year we did an expo, which was 2019 — I pushed to do one large giveaway item instead of like multiple small ones to reduce the waste. And so, I've done little things like that, I've tried to make my impact in small ways in that way, and they always feel really good, when you…when you've been able to do that. I think…I like to see that it influences other people to do the same thing, ‘cause other business units that did expos adopted the same strategy. I don't know if they did it for the eco-friendly part or the convenience part but either way, it still reduced waste and so it was a win, but...
Jordan 14:48
I love that. But I was curious for you to…Looking at your art from before to now, I've noticed you incorporated a lot of nature and…and the environment in your art and I'm curious if as your relationship with nature has evolved, if you've incorporated it more into your art intentionally? ‘Cause, I don't know, a lot of your pieces when I look at them, especially your latest digital pieces. Like, they're stunning and they really capture, like, the Earth and nature like, so well, but at the same time, I'm like, is there like…is this, like, a way of, like, talking about climate change too, like, with the whale watching? Is it, like, us looking into the future when whales have gone extinct from all of our— Like, I don't know, I was looking at this and maybe reading a little too much into it, but I was like…but it's like, it's one of those things where, like, I think people forget that art plays such a invaluable role in, like, communication in particular.
D2 15:41
I wish I was that smart. I wish, like, had this vision that you had, it was like, “Yes, I'm making this piece of art”. Um, yeah, my creative process is way more organic than that, like, I feel like…and if you've noticed, like, you went down this rabbit hole…Like, sometimes I’ll post, like, three things in a week, and I don't think I've posted anything in like, a few weeks or a month, like, because I wait for it to, like, almost, like, come to me, like, it's almost just like an inspiration where it's just, like, I need to sit down and make this. And sometimes, I only know one thing that's going to go into it. So like, that whale was, I think, the last thing I added to that piece.
Jordan 16:28
Interesting!
D2 16:27
And it was just randomly, like, I need something in the sky. And I just, like, start—, like, Goog—, like, searching different things. And then, like, oh, I saw that whale. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, like whale watching. Like it's like they're in the sky and the stars and whatever” and just kind of went with it. But it's almost like I go into…**** let’s say, like, a trance, like, I'm not like shut off to the world, but it is…it's almost like I'm just in this. Like, I don't really know what I'm thinking half the time and I'm just, like, typing and then I'm, like, cutting, and like, cropping things, and like, just layering them all up. And then sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Sometimes I erase things, and start over, and…and they just come together. Like, I wish I had a better vision. But now that you bring that up, now I'm like, I want to, like, start going into these with a little bit more intention, and seeing what comes out of it.
Jordan 17:17
That's interesting. I honestly thought that was intentional. Especially because the last pieces you have were all about like...or were all nature focused.
D2 17:27
I think, I mean, I think the presence of nature in my art is probably more, like a…just a subconscious of, like, how much I feel connected to nature and how much I love being outside and like, in the mountains hiking and like, you know, all that kind of stuff. And it's probably more of just that subconscious, like, the layers of me coming through.
Mimi 17:44
I’m curious if, like, you've kind of felt the other way. Like, have you ever been really educated about the environmental movement through a pier— piece of art? Like, if you saw something you were like, “Yes!”, like, “this is something I want to incorporate!”. Not necessarily as an artist, but just into your life.
D2 17:59
I don't think I have! I've only recently really…like, I've always been very artistic and this is… this is one of the things that I think top of my list of what I will be most thankful for with my journey for Start the Wave is it's really reignited this like fire in me to be artistic and be creative. And so I've actually not been following a lot of artists and looking at a lot of artwork as much as I have in the last, like, year.
Mimi 18:29
Interesting…yeah…
D2 18:32
So I haven't had that experience, yet. Like, I just started following…I think Jordan, you were the one that told me...Did you tell me to start following Mitty?
Jordan 18:40
Yes, yes. Really cool photographer! She…
D2 18:44
That photography, yeah, is just amazing!
Jordan 18:47
She's, like, this cool art photographer that I found actually while we w—…to highlight artists on our Eco-Hero page because I realized we w—…I was highlighting so many like scientists and, like, people doing, like, very specific sciency things but she's like a conservation photographer who explores humanity's relationship with the planet, as well as like the possibilities of like a mindful sustainable future.
Mimi 19:09
Right on!
Jordan 19:10
Her name is Cristina Goettsch Mite..Mit…Mittermeier. She's a Mexican writer and marine biologist. But no, but that's…that's actually really cool, ‘cause I was gonna say your art on Start the Wave is…is really like…like, amazing! Like, I love how— especially this…the new design that you guys have, that's all kind of interconnected, and all the colors and themes are related to the pillars… Like, I was curious if just doing the art, even on Start the Wave, you’ve actually thought— like, changed your own style too? Like, I don't…Like, I know we…you kind of have this theme going. Are you kind of thinking about a…like an upcoming theme, like, a different way of…kind of showcasing Start the Wave in their pillars, at all?
D2 19:54
Yeah, we...Dom and I sat down and came up with this idea to do this theme for two cycles. So we said a year, but because of the way that the…the pillars have run and like certain...because we do them by the lunar cycles, and so some pillars have taken longer because of where the moon's fall. But it's definitely taken my creativity within Start the Wave to a new level, because it's not just designing an individual square, which was what…was…it was before, like. And so what we really liked about this approach, when we came up with it in December was, you know, Start the Wave and our pillars are very intersectional. And like, we, like, we have our resource pages that we've been launching. And a lot of the, like, podcasts, or books, or movies on those things, we may put them on the meditation list, but they also relate to kindness, and they might relate to animal rights. And so they're…they're so intersectional. And this is a way for it to just show that they flow together. On top of that, it's like a huge scrapbook, which I, like, think is awesome. And it's…it's like a collage. But on a larger scale. And that's definitely where my collage art, I think, came from, I definitely think the…the new approach to Start the Wave, and the creativity, and the design there definitely did influence kind of my personal pieces as well.
Jordan 21:37
Nice, that's awesome. And they're great! I was curious why they..why you're…this…why it's cycling around the lunar cycle.
D2 21:43
So the lunar cycle means a lot to Dom, and we were highlighting those prior. And the moon, the lunar cycles, and you know, that type of thing definitely feeds into the meditation and spirituality pillar. And so we were, we were trying to figure out where the break would be, like, do we do it by month? you know, some months. I think it was just one of those, like, you know, downloads that was just like, we should just do it by the lunar cycle. And then that way, we can call out the lunar cycles without drawing crazy attention to them like we did before, because we wanted to kind of back off those. Still call attention to them, still bringing attention to them, because like, we feel like they're important, but we don't need to have a post, like, a whole grid square for each new moon and each full moon. And then it just worked from there. I was like, yeah, like we can just say like, it's a new lunar cycle. So now let's have a new focus. And that's what lunar cycles are about, is, like, each lunar cycle you're supposed to spend...set new intentions and new focuses on new things to grow on.
Mimi 22:28
I just think it's really beautiful when we, like, we let nature influence our lives like that. A few years ago, I was working on a farm and like, when we had an afternoon off or a day off, it was because it was raining or what— you know, like, like, nature really controlled our day-to-day and I loved that like…You…you ate when you got hungry and…and even just like working underneath the lunar cycles. I think that's so cool. Like, screw January 1, that's just like...
D2 22:50
Yeah!
Mimi 22:52
...like, a created date by…
Jordan 22:55
Capitalism?
Mimi 22:55
I don't even know who created this…the calendar...
Jordan 22:58
Likely capitalism.
Mimi 23:01
W— I know, I know, like, the current calendar was created through, like, Catholicism and the Vatican, right? So like...
D2 23:08
Yeah.
Mimi 23:08
…I think that's so much cooler! It's like following nature let...let...letting nature guide us. And I think that, at least for me, I think that's the way that we need to be navigating the climate crisis is, like, listening to nature more and being more in tune with that, even if it means, like, something, like, scheduling your social media based on the moon, right?
Jordan 23:25
I just like the intention setting too. I hadn't actually realized that that's what the lunar cycle meant, was just kind of setting intentions for a new, I guess, rotation of the moon? Should know this, I did physics! Yeah. [Mimi laughs] The rotation of the moon! No, but I love that, ‘cause that also now— I think that's what's so cool about art is, like… I think people who don't know Start the Wave would just see it and be like, “Oh, that's really cool!” but then when you realize everything is so interconnected, I think it just also speaks to the bigger picture of what climate change really is, and like Mimi said, like having…our lives are really dictated by nature, especially with climate change now, too, so… I love that art has a way of just, like, meaning so many different things, almost? I…there was a quote that I really liked from Aristotle that said, like, “Art not only imitates nature, but also completes it in its deficiencies”. That was an interesting way that art plays into all this.
Mimi 24:23
Yeah, I love that.
Jordan 24:24
Yeah.
D2 24:25
Um. I think for me, like, art, and having it be done in a very creative and impactful way, can get people's attention more than like a news article, with like a header that just is words, and it's things they've heard over and over and over again, as they scroll, you know, the internet.
Jordan 24:49
There's actually a really great account on Instagram called Amplify Arts, that…that, um, talks about really important issues just through art, like there's no text, usually it is just an art piece. And I remember it, like— there's a really cool climate photojournalist. Her name is Alanah Tr— Torralba. And she's a photographer and her photographs on climate change are fascinating! But she said, you know, a good photograph, a good piece of art, or story, taps into your most primal emotions and helps us process the depth of climate change as a societal problem. And I think that's exactly what you're saying, that I think, facts don't do alone, and I think art almost acts as, like, this bridge for that communication barrier. But yeah, we can now jump back also to parenting. So this might be a personal question, you totally don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable, but we're curious, like, before you became a parent, if you had any, like hesitations or concerns about having a child, with all of these environmental issues? And like, how did you kind of navigate that kind of hesitation or maybe insecurity, or fear, about it? If you even had it at all?
D2 26:05
Yeah, I didn't. I th—like, there was that moment, I had returned to work, Toby was a few months old. And there was a co-worker of mine who was, like, always talking about global warming, you know, always— you know, but…but they were that…aggressive person that you just didn't want to listen to. And so I didn't listen to them very much, because of the way they approached it. And so, I come back from work for…a few months after Toby was born, and I was sitting there. And it was one of those times where I think…I don't think that she meant to say it in front of me, like, I think if she would have, like, really thought who was around her, she wouldn't have said it. I don't think she's that kind of person. And they were reading an article about the…global warming, and they were spitting off all this stuff, and I was just kind of sitting there rolling my eyes. And they were just, like, you know, “this is just a joke, like, I don't know, what kind of monster brings a child into this world”. And I was just like, oof, I just had a kid, you know? And then it was like, should…should I be worried? Like, are there things that I should be researching? Like, is there, like, validity to this? Should be— like, should people stop having kids? And granted, I live in Utah, where like, most families have, like, eight kids. It's like, I'm in this environment where ever— like, I was crazy for not having a kid yet. And so it was just like this crazy swirl of…what do I do, because I have the pressure of not having a kid from, like, the, you know, community and environment that I live in. And then I have this lady telling me I shouldn't have had a kid, like, so what's the truth? Um, and that was when I really started doing my research. And like, like I talked about earlier, taking what…like, the love of the planet and nature and respecting that, from my parents. And then, like, “Okay, now that we have all this new stuff that my coworker keeps talking about, that I keep ignoring her, because the way she comes across, what can I learn on my own about that stuff? And then incorporate those and figure out a plan of how to bring this child into the world with an advantage to hopefully do better”. And so yeah, I didn't have…I didn't have any hesitation or anything like that, going into it. It wasn't anything that I even thought about. But, I am very thankful for that person, with that comment, no matter how hard it was to hear, and like the panic that I went through for a little while, like, it definitely opened my eyes and…and kind of set me on that path of…of doing better.
Mimi 28:21
I find that story so interesting for so many reasons. And one of the things I'm really curious to know is, when you started to do that research, first of all, how did you even start to do that? ‘Cause I feel like that's…that's a huge topic to start to research and kind of like, what was the emotional journey that you went through as you were doing this research, and as you were learning?
D2 28:41
I...there wasn't — I mean, this was 12 years ago, almost 13 years ago, so I mean, it was still a ways back — there wasn't a ton, except just basically like, polar ice caps are melting, and icebergs are disappearing. And you would see, like, the starving polar bear on an iceberg, and you know, different things like that. So it wasn't, it definitely wasn't where it is now, where we can see all the different aspects. A lot of it was very basics…basic starters that like, I think nowadays, everyone is like, “Well, duh! No one does— Like no…no one worries about that, like, everyone knows better than to do those things”. You know, those were the new things to worry about back then. And so it was…it was basically just getting on Google and just, like, typing in “global warming”, and then just reading as much as I could about what was there. And it's hard. I mean, you…you know better now, like, I know better now about misinformation. There was a bunch of stuff that I read that put me into a panic that, like, was, like, completely inflated, and…and from the wrong perspective. But yeah, it was definitely, like, an emotional roller coaster of just knowing the right thing. Because I think for me, it was interesting because you already have the pressure of being a new parent and wanting to do right by your child and wanting to bring them up properly and wanting to feel like you're a good parent and then I— while I'm like, already trying to navigate that I added the pressure on myself of “Now, I also need to make sure I'm doing this. And I'm focusing on these things, and I am doing better. And I'm…I am, like, almost like justifying having my child”. Which I don't think was fair, I don't think I needed to do that, but it's what I felt at the time. Like, I felt like I needed to justify myself to this person who I had no connection to. And so it was definitely…it was…it was an interesting few years until I kind of got my feet under me and, and got a good plan together to just kind of continually educate myself and figure out ways to get that information to Toby that he could digest at his age.
Jordan 30:42
Would you say that, like, having Toby almost…also held you accountable for your own environmentalism too, ‘cause I…I think, for anyone who…who's just starting out and doing that research, like, it's so overwhelming, and I… I know, for a lot of people it cau—…it creates, like, almost this sense of just, like, overwhelming distress, and I know that it can force a lot of people to just not do anything, but as a parent, you almost don't have that as an option.
D2 31:12
Oh, yeah. Like, I know, I always, as a parent, I always have eyes on me, like, constantly, like…And I think you learned that early on into parenting, when you think, like, they're not gonna see this, and then you do something, “why do you do that mom?” And it's like…like, “I didn't even know you were standing right there”, you know, like…And so you just constantly have those eyes on you. And so yeah, there's been, it's…it's held me accountable. And there's been those times, like you said, like, it's…it's a lot. It's work. And it's, I mean, you have to want to do the work, you know. And there's been times where, you know, the thought goes through my mind, like, we're going to, like, a big picnic, or we're going camping, or we're doing something and, like, the thoughts that, like, it would just be so easy to buy a pallet of water right now, instead of packing all of these bottles for the weekend. And I'm like, Toby would not be happy if I went and bought a pallet of water right now. And it holds me accountable. And so yeah, there's definit— like, he definitely keeps me in check. Because I…I want to do the work for myself, but I also want to do it for him, but I also don't want him to be disappointed or not be proud, because I'm not taking the steps I've been teaching him to do, if that makes sense.
Jordan 32:17
Totally.
Mimi 32:18
Definitely. Yeah. How do you navigate the pressure that you might feel as a parent to, like, not slip up? I would…like, I'm not a parent myself, so I don't have that lived experience, but just you describing that that would be very…that could be very overwhelming, right?
D2 32:29
Yeah. Um, I think for me, it's never been too much at once, I guess is the…probably the big part is it's just like those passing moments, like when we're getting ready to go camping, or going away for the weekend. And you know, it would just be easier not to pack all of this extra stuff. So we can be eco-friendly on our trip. Like, I want to stand behind what I'm teaching him and I want to have that integrity in. If I tell my son not to do something, I shouldn't be doing it.
Jordan 33:03
I love that. I wish I had that integrity too, ‘cause I’m definitely that type of person who goes “oh if it's easier”, just gonna go, “woop”, go…go that way. My mom always says “people do what they are…”. No, “people don't do what they're expected to do, they do what they're inspected”, like, like, like what people actually see.
D2 33:18
Hm. That’s a good quote!
Mimi 33:19
Yeah, that is!
Jordan 33:20
Have you ever for your own self, like…How do you deal with your own mental health regarding climate change? And do you have those type of conversations with…with your son as well? Like, how do you navigate…just…if he…if he ever feels overwhelmed what to do about it?
D2 33:36
Like... I've...I've just recognized in myself the need to focus on mental health and like, how… different times in my life, I was probably dealing with anxiety or depression, and I just didn't know any better, and like, it wasn't something we ever talked about. And so I didn't seek help. And it's only been, you know, something that I've sought help for the last year or so, and have gone to therapy and been focusing on and having conversations with Toby just in general about mental health. Like I haven't really drawn a connection between the two. But like right now, in, like, the moment that we're in, like, I feel like I don't have a lot of anxiety or anything around where we're at and what we're doing. I feel like in the situation that we're in, we're doing the best we can. And I think that comes down to not to jump ahead, like, the imperfect part of being an eco-hero is knowing that, like, you can't do everything at once. And you just…you have to be, like, comfortable and confident in the work that you are able to do.
Mimi 34:36
Hm mmm. You just… you just said that you're imperfect, and I would agree that I'm imperfect too. And I think Jordan can agree for herself, as well.
Jordan 34:44
Absolutely!
Mimi 34:44
Yeah, do you…do you consider yourself an eco-hero? Both in the sense of like, as an artist and as a parent?
D2 34:53
I would say 100% I feel that in my parenting, just because I feel like the lessons that I've taught are getting across, you know, when he's coming to me with ways that we can be more eco-friendly or he's coming to me with school assignments. And he's chosen to write about something that goes along with Start the Wave and, like, reducing plastic, and, you know, all this kind of stuff. I feel like part of being a hero is making other people's lives better. And so like, I feel like I'm confident in my parenting to say that I'm doing that for him.
Mimi 35:22
That's awesome. I love that.
Jordan 35:25
Hm mmm.
Mimi 35:25
One other thing that you've touched upon a couple times throughout this interview is just the idea of, like, becoming an eco-hero slowly. Like, you don't have to go from zero to 100. And you just like, take it in digestible amounts and go on your own journey of, like, learning and discovering. And I think that's really beautiful and really important as well. ‘Cause sometimes, especially when you were describing that, like, the process of research that you went through, sometimes that can be very scary, you just want to do everything at once, right? But, I really like how you were able to ground yourself and…and just take it as a journey, ‘cause I think that's what it is, it is a journey.
D2 36:03
When I think that's, like, I think there's two, like, common misperceptions just with life in general, that can relate to, you know, anything which can relate to being an eco-hero. One is that everything needs to be done at once. Like, I don't know where this mentality comes from, but it is so inbred in our society that, like, you just need to know everything from day one, which is…it's really interesting, because it's like our kids are born, you go through like 12 years of school [laughs], like, to get to a point where you…you are a functioning adult, apparently. It takes time to learn things and like, grow and understand. And I think everything's like that. Nobody's going to be exactly the same. Everybody's going to succeed and fail different…different times, different lengths of time, different times in their lives, like different age, I mean, everything! You're gonna fail in different ways, you're gonna succeed in different ways, but everybody has that journey, and they're not perfect from day one. And the second thing is, I don't think perfection exists. And I don't think it's anything people should attain, like, try to attain, to get, because I think it just, it can almost demotivate people because it is so hard. Because I feel like it's impossible to be perfect. And so you can always feel like you're failing, if you're trying to attain perfection. And so that's like with me, like, with the eco stuff, is it's like, there's always things I wish I could be doing, there's always more I wish I could be doing, but I do what I can.
Jordan 37:36
Do you think the reason why people struggle with that… ‘cause you just described my entire start to trying to go more eco. And I switched completely to veganism all in one go without really doing much research. I, like, tried to go fully Zero Waste, buying diva cups and everything. And like, I just tried to do a lot at once and failed miserably and then felt terrible for it after. But I found for me what was so hard was, I guess, no one ever really talked about it. I found with most people, like most accounts, everything I tried to follow, it was always like success stories. It was always like, “Oh, yeah, I went vegan and it was easy”, “I did this and it was good”, like…I'm curious for you, like, were there people along this journey that…that have taught you this, who've talked about their failures? Or like…or is that just kind of who you are.
D2 38:21
Um, I think that's...just I think that's just my basic processing mode, is to just kind of go with the flow, and do the best I can. But it was very helpful that, like, my best friend, he also works with me. And we shared an office and so when I would start going more eco-friendly with things at the office... And it really kicked off with Start the Wave, like Dom's first video with the water bottle, like I was like, “Oh my gosh”, you know, I made sure, like, I brought in a reusable cup for my coffee every morning on top of, like…so I was just doing like the paper cups in the cafe, not thinking too much of it because “oh, it’s paper, it's not plastic!”, like…still waste we don't need, you know? And he was like, “What are you doing?”, and I was like, “I'm not using any more cups, like, while I'm here, like, I have my bottle but now I'm, like, gonna use the coffee cup and everything”. He was like, “Oh, really”, like…And then I would show him the videos, as they would come out, at work. We'd watch them on our computers. And so then it, like, got him to be like, okay, and like…so we've, like, over the last, you know, three or four years just shared tips. Like, he's like, “Hey, have you read this” and he'll, like, send me an article about some Kickstarter for like some new composting bin. That's definitely helped hold me accountable, and like, helped…also have someone who's just like, “I tried this and it sucked” and hear those, like, bad stories. But yes, that is an unfortunate thing with what you hear, because you do…the way our media skews everything, is you only hear the success stories. And so I think that's just everything in life. We only hear success stories and you have to really dig for the real, like, journey, failure-succeed-failure-succeed stories, because they're not part of our mainstream media. But they're important ‘cause there's way more stories like ours, and then there aren’t the ones on Google. [laughs]
Mimi 40:24
I think, yeah, I keep, like, breaking down, like, everything you're saying, like, seeing, like, the themes in what you're saying. And I think it's super cool because another one, like, in addition to, like, don't take everything on at once, another one is, like, progress isn't necessarily linear. Right? And I think, again, that that works for environmentalism, but I think that works for, like, every facet of our life, and..
Jordan 40:42
Parenting, too.
Mimi 40:44
Yeees! And like, yeah, we are inundated with these ideas of, like, success, and yeah, you're not necess—…it's not always going to be,like, success-success-success. It's going to be a lot of failures, it's going to be a lot of trial and error. And I think that's really beautiful, and I think that's, like, super relatable and, like, everything you were saying, I was like, yes, like, I can totally relate to that. And I love that about you, and I love that about, like, all of our guests that we talk to, is like how human they are.
Jordan 41:17
Yeah, couldn’t d—
D2 41:18
Yeah, “baby steps” is definitely, like, my biggest advice when it comes to really anything. Because like, I did that with veganism as well, Jordan, like I was just, like, “Oh, okay, going vegan”. “Oh, yeah, no, that backfired”. [general laughter] It is hard to just cold-turkey that thing, man. And so I did it cold-turkey for like, I think a month, month and a half. And then it was like, one day I was like, “Oh, I just I'm, like, sick of black bean burgers, like, they're dry, like, uh..” and I just, like, I went ham— hamburger. Made me sick, for one, and then I just completely fell off the wagon and just went back to eating normal. And I was like, “no, no, I want to do— there's a reason I want to do this, like, there's, like, reason”. And I've been thinking about going vegan for probably a year or two, before the Start the Wave video on it. And I didn't even know that there was environmental impacts to it until the video. I just wanted to go, like, for the animal stuff, the health stuff, like that kind of thing. So I was like, “Okay, I'm gonna do the…do this in baby steps”. And so I did, like, I was just like, “Okay, what can I live without? I can live without red meat”. So I cut red meat for a month. And then it was like, “Okay, now what can I cut? Okay, well, let's just cut everything but fish. And I'll cut my dairy consumption by 50%”. And then I cut all dairy. And I just kept fish and eggs, for a little bit. And then I just got rid of those and...and now I'm vegan. But I mean, it took a good four to six months to, like, really just be, like, this is the new normal now.
Mimi 42:48
And I would even say that's like on the shorter end, like…
Jordan 42:52
Hm mmm.
Mimi 42:53
Like, even if you took, like, years to get there, like...
D2 42:57
Oh, yeah, like even that—
Mimi 42:58
Like... yeah.
D2 42:58
—it’s better than nothing, yeah.
Mimi 43:00
Yeah.
D2 43:00
Well, that’s the thing too, I think, like, with the...the perfection and, like, the all in, you know, like. You don't even have to be vegan. That's the thing. Like...
Mimi 43:07
Yeah! Yeah yeah yeah.
D2 43:09
...we get that…that response a lot, even when— Whenever we share anything vegan, on Start the Wave, we do get those responses of, like, “I've tried, and I just can't” or, you know, we definitely have, you know, “veganism is very ableist”, which we recognize and we understand. It's…it comes with...with a lot of privilege, because it's more expensive, like, we understand all those things, and we try to, as best we can, acknowledge that in our captions and the information that we share. But we're also not telling anyone they have to be vegan. We're just educating people on why we are, or why it's important, or why we should be advocating for it because of the impact that the meat and dairy industry have on us, and the world, and animals, and everything. But like, even if you just have Meatless Mondays once a week, like, that's still an impact. Like..
Mimi 44:00
Huge impact.
D2 44:00
I mean, every…every little thing someone does, like, even if you don't do anything else eco-friendly, except buy a reusable water bottle. Like, you're still doing something. And like, those things should be celebrated. And I think because we put that pressure on people to be perfect and be all in, they can't celebrate and appreciate the small steps they have taken. And I think that's what I want people to, like, take away, is like everything you do for the betterment of our planet, the humans living on it, the animals living on it, everything you do, no matter how big or small, is an impact and you should be proud of it.
[outro]
Mimi 44:42
Thanks for listening to this episode of Imperfect Eco-Hero. Stay connected with us through our instagram @Imperfect_ecohero or email us at imperfectecohero@gmail.com. If you want to learn more about our podcast or see resources related to this episode, visit our website imperfectecohero.com.
